• Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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    15 hours ago

    perhaps, or perhaps it could be replaced by something worse. there are no guarantees

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      8 hours ago

      Read up on historical revolution, Socialist revolution has a great track record, and if the US Empire didn’t interfere it would be even better.

      • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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        14 hours ago

        the nordic states seem to be doing pretty well at riding a good line, and whilst australia is far from socialist, what we have is working great too

        accident? no of course not… but consistency… a big bang “revolution” is the easy way out… it’s so easy to say you’ll fight for what you believe in when you don’t have to see what it’ll entail or what will come out the other side of it but the reality is far more bloody and is absolutely not what you have in your head afterwards

        • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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          14 hours ago

          the nordic countries do well at the cost of the third world. they are rich because of imperialism.

          • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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            14 hours ago

            and you believe a revolution in the US will help the third world?

            socialist countries are plenty capable of being exploitative too. a revolution doesn’t change the people - it changes the power structures

            • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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              14 hours ago

              a socialist state would not spend public money so corporations can profit from waging endless war instead of just having solid healthcare.

              • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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                14 hours ago

                all of the above listed counties have very solid healthcare and are not entirely socialist. what’s your point?

                socialism is not a requirement for being a place that treats people with respect and dignity; nor is it a silver bullet

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  8 hours ago

                  As @[email protected] said, the Nordics can only provide the safety nets they do while paying generally high wages while still maintaining enormous profits for their bourgeoisie because they expropriate vast sums from the Global South via Imperialism, manifested in outsourcing manufacturing for pennies and through large loans. They are Landlords in country form.

                  They aren’t alone in this, of course, the whole of Western Europe generally does it, and the US Empire is the biggest at it.

                  • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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                    6 hours ago

                    i don’t disagree, but socialism won’t solve that just by virtue of it being different… global socialism, perhaps but on the country level it’s just not. socialism just aligns local incentives

                • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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                  13 hours ago

                  it is a requirement if you want to do that without oppessing brown people elsewhere.

                  • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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                    12 hours ago

                    the important thing is not socialism: it’s a government that deals with negative externalities

                    socialism tends to do better at that simply because often it often does better at long-term planning (but that’s not a given either), but capitalism without corporate bullshit, stock markets, etc (ie actual ownership over a business rather than just ownership over a vague thing where you’re only concerned with line goes up not long term business health) has pretty much the same drivers: long term sustainability and this holding others to account for their negative externalities