The only AI company that responded to Ars’ request to comment was OpenAI, whose spokesperson confirmed that OpenAI is already working on a way to fight tarpitting.

Ah yes. It’s extremely common for one of the top companies in an industry to spitefully expend resources fighting the irrelevant efforts of…

One or two people

Please, continue to grace us with you unbiased wisdom. Clearly you’ve read the article and aren’t just trying to simp for AI or start flame wars like a petulant child.

Kathleen technically fills the specified criteria if you remove the context of the conversation, which is whether or not Lucas shared a morally acceptable portion of the billions of dollars of wealth generated by LucasFilm that he took for himself, including the $4 billion he made personally from it’s sale to Disney.

Your other two of your allegedly obvious examples are absolutely not from LucasFilm and one of them has a net worth of $20m, which is definitively not “hundreds of millions”.

I presume, therefore, that you either argue in bad faith or don’t try very hard. In either case, you aren’t worth my time anymore.

I could throw a dart on a list of names and get such a person.

Fascinating. You respond with the president of LucasFilm who started, more or less, months before LucasFilm was sold to Disney in 2012, an actor who has had an amazing career well beyond anything related to LucasFilm, and an actor with a career is admittedly most associated with the Star Wars Franchise (though he’s done a lot of voice work in unrelated franchises) but who’s net worth is only about 20 million.

So 1/3 are actually part of LucasFilm, and that one didn’t really work under Lucas. Ford did star in a two franchises under LucasFilm, but he is not part of LucasFilm.

Thanks for wasting a few minutes of my time.

If you can name another person from LucasFilm that also had, at some point, several hundred million dollars, I’ll make an effort to look into that claim.

If the people who worked on making money from the Star Wars franchise generated literally billions of dollars in value for George Lucas’s company and George still has billions of dollars then no, he did not distribute those billions to those people. How do you not understand? I’ll simplify this for you.

If I have 1000 employees and my company rakes in $4 billion in revenue, I’m not a good guy even if I give them $1,000,000 each and keep the remaining… $3,000,000,000. That would imply that I think my work was 3,000x more important and valuable then their work. I guarantee that some people that helped Lucas make billions of dollars were paid as little as possible, with many likely in foreign countries with much lower minimum wages.

Society likes to pretend that rich people earn their money. What actually happens is that rich people create a situation in which they are disproportionately rewarded for work done by many other people. Yes, it’s likely they did some work too (occasionally even good work), but not work proportional to their compensation. The fact that they insisted that they be the ones retaining a disproportionately large percentage of the surplus value is very telling.

Or he could have distributed the billions he made, as he was making them, to more equitably pay everyone who’s work generated that wealth.

That’s my point.

Where do you think he got his billions?

He owned the IP. He ensured that he’d retain merchandise rights and sequel rights via his contract for the original Star Wars film. He made his billions off of that. Mostly merchandise. Then he sold his company LucasFilm (along with those rights) to Disney in 2012 for a few billion in cash and a few billion in Disney stock (making him one of the largest shareholders).

So yeah, he did own the franchise first.

So instead of more evenly distributing the profit from the franchise to everyone who contributed, he’s going to hand the wealth to an already obscenely wealthy corporation so that he can have control over it again?

The only time precedent ever matters to conservatives is if it works in their favor.

No, before anyone says it, it is not smart to stoop to their level

While it’s a bit disappointing, I understand that one perspective is that it is a defensive move. I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume that Trump is going to abuse his power and weaponize the Justice Dept to extract everything he can, politically, from the resulting show.

I don’t know whether or not Biden would have done the exact same thing if it was a more reasonable Republican administration coming in. That would be far more telling. It might have been that Biden was making a show of it with the assumption that he’d be overseeing and influencing it all as president and if that weren’t the case he’d be abusing his authority to spare his son.

Yes, it’s frustrating because of the message it send but frankly, I don’t think it’ll cause much trouble. Everyone who’d see it as an admission of the guilt of the “Biden crime family” wasn’t going to change their mind, even if Hunter was publicly drawn and quartered by the Biden administration. Those folks would immediately move the goal post - “Yeah, whatever, but what about…” or just insist Hunter’s death was fake and it was all sham.

You don’t even need bribery. You can just throw money at something and make things happen.

If you think something is true, you can pay the world to prioritize things as if it were true.

If you think vaccines cause autism and you are rich, you can create massive “education” campaigns and the like to convince people its true. You can buy ads telling people its true. You can amass an enormous following of people who believe you and change policy without bribery.

the same process

It doesn’t necessarily involve the middle man, who is ultimately the bigger fish that enshittifiers are looking to land. I think that’s relevant. Enshittification’s process involves capturing both a “retail” user base and a business user base and then squeezing both.

Edit. Enshittification is layered and more specific to industries and markets that are not inherently profitable. It starts with seed money being burned for that initial user base and fucks over everyone up and down the chain because the business is not really profitable otherwise. Skimp/shrinkflation is more about squeezing more profit than you are already making.

I’ve see it used a lot recently to describe the general degradation of quality in service of increasing profits. I think technically, it is not enshittification. Below is my general definition of the process enshittification describes. Repost from another comment.

1. Attract users/customers with high quality services/products to create a captive/dependent user base.
2. Attract business customers (ex. advertisers or businesses that can benefit from access to the user base in some way) by offering them high value services by fucking over your captive user base create a captive/dependent busiess customer base.
3. Fuck over your captive business customers to increase your own profit.

A word that includes the word “shit” in it has a very nice ring to it when describing things getting generally shittier in favor of profit. I suppose language can evolve rapidly and things mean what people believe them to mean.

Edit: As per Wikipedia’s Shrinkflation Entry:

Skimpflation involves a reformulation or other reduction in quality.

I see skimpflation as a form of shrinkflation. The idea is still that the price stays the same but to try and hide the cost increase from the customer they give you less. I guess fewer strawberries per “smoothie” is even more subtle than fewer ounces of the original “smoothie” formula per bottle.

To be a pedantic asshole, technically enshittification is meant to refer to online services that follow an inevitable process of…

1. Attract users/customers with high quality services/products to create a captive/dependent user base.
2. Attract business customers (ex. advertisers or businesses that can benefit from access to the user base in some way) by offering them high value services by fucking over your captive user base create a captive/dependent busiess customer base.
3. Fuck over your captive business customers to increase your own profit.

Admittedly, I see enshittification used colloquially meaning basically “business found a way to fuck over its customers more than usual to increase their profit”. Perhaps that is what you mean by “General enshittification”.

In maybe third grade I brought my collection of x-men trading cards as part of a sort of show and tell activity. It was in a sizable three-ring binder with those 3x3 slot cars sheets. I had a number of highly valued “foil/hologram” cards. The binder was gone when I got back from lunch. I was devastated and learned to never leave anything of value not locked up if I’m not watching it.

At work we have a kitchen/break room. I’ve had shit stolen from there a lot. Utensils, cups, bowls. Wash it after lunch, put it in the drying rack, come back in an hour to get it and it’s gone. Once my department had a leftover pizza from an event donated to us. I brought in a baking sheet to reheat it in the oven for a lunch morale boost for the team because we had to work that weekend. The sheet, left in a drawer and not visible to any casual observers, was gone by Monday. That was actually the first item I’d had stolen there but I thought I was just s fluke.

I’ve literally bought upgrades and utensil sets for the kitchen (maybe people “stealing” my utensils just forgot to bring a fork, borrowed mine, and brought it home by accident?). Stuff like drying towels, soap dispensers + large refill bottles, a microwave food cover… all stolen. I’d keep getting frustrated with, for example, people leaving the sponge wet in the sink. I’d think “its been a year since I last donated something, maybe it’ll be different this time…” and I’d buy an OXO sponge holder or something and within a week it would be gone. Everyone in my office, including secretaries and cleaning staff, gets paid at least a living wage with great health benefits. Some make well over 100k. I just imagine someone making twice my salary seeing a nice soap dispenser and taking it home… lost a good bit of faith in humanity and affected me way more than it should have.

I found a solution though. Whoever was stealing this shit couldn’t deal with the shame of being reminded that they stole it. I started labeling the donated items using my organization’s acronym with a permanent marker in big visible letters. None of that’s been stolen. I was going to engrave my utensils/dishes but decided instead to look like an asshole and bring my own towel when washing my dishes, drying them immediately, and taking them back to my desk immediately.

to do otherwise means we’re actually a combination of Trump supporting tankies who run socket puppet accounts for Russia, and actually want the country to continue sliding towards fascim.

Lol

So yeah, I understand your position just fine.

LOL. Fucking LOL.

One last reply and I’m done.

Yes, I doubt that you are some disgruntled DNC veteran. Yes, in this day and age I can’t be certain that you aren’t just part of some foreign or domestic social media effort to destroy morale and advocate for not voting. However, I only mentioned it offhand and have continued to treat you like an individual. You have not done the same.

I see you as misguided and angry. I see you as unaware of the consequences and ineffectiveness of the actions you advocate for. You never said anything to deny what a second Trump presidency would look like, besides the extremely simple assertion that he’s too stupid and petty. You act like it will be fine.

You ignore the damage he’s already done. Women all over the country are suffering, voting is being suppressed, minorities and LGBTQ+ folks are being denied their rights, environmental laws are getting gutted, and good federal agencies are being stripped of their power… because of the justices and judges that Trump appointed. You ignore all this and state you’re going to refuse to vote for establishment candidates in the general election. Why? Because, like a child, you are angry that your preferred candidate didn’t win the primary. So, to “send a message”, you’re willing to risk pushing our country another four years closer to a fascist theocracy…

Yeah, I’m going to hold my nose and vote with my conscience.

I see. So you are advocating to not vote for Biden. Your not explicitly telling people not to vote for Biden, your just telling them that doing so is actively making the country worse. Got it.

I never said don’t vote, NOT ONCE. I haven’t even appealed to others to follow my lead in not supporting Biden.

So how does one vote in the presidential election and not, in some way, support Biden?

My whole fucking point is that not voting for Biden brings us one step closer to a country I doubt either of us would prefer to live in. I am vocal in my opposition to the choice we’re being given and in my criticism of a great many actions and inactions of the current administration but I’m still going to vote for Biden over Trump and over any third party candidate.

What, exactly, is your point? If not withholding your vote and yelling about it then how does one “not support” Biden?

You mean vote in the Presidential primary that the DNC cancelled this year?

You are not arguing in good faith. I obviously mean every fucking Democratic primary in the country… Jesus fuck.

Or did you mean, ignore that they cancelled it, and just vote for Biden like a good little lemming?

I mean make sure it doesn’t fucking happen in the future. NOT voting is what the Democratic party expects the left to do. NOT voting is exactly what the right wants you to do. Hell, I’m half convinced that’s your goal to begin with. We live in fucked up times with misinformation and manipulation via social media is a powerful tool.

Don’t be so hysterical. Trump is bad, and I’m under no illusion what another term of his would be like, but he’s far too stupid and petty to “end democracy”, the Democrats are doing fine at doing that themselves.

…

he’s far too stupid and petty to “end democracy”

I’m sorry, do only smart and reasonable people have the ability to end democracy? The only reason he didn’t fucking steal the White House already is because he was to stupid and petty to do it right the first time and the old right wing powers thought he was making them look bad.

This time, they realized he’s barely suffered any consequences and they are going all in. He’s their shot. They’ll suck his dick and hand him a crown as long as it gets them in the door and keeps them in power. He’ll do what they want - appoint the judges, issue the executive orders, whatever - so long as he gets that crown and his pile of cash.

Even if Trump manages to peacefully transfer power after an election in 2028, the United States will no longer be a democracy. I’m honestly scared to death of what a less stupid, less petty right wing president could do with the structure the right has been using Trump to put in place. Too much damage will already have been done.

Put out the fire now, do whatever it takes to make sure the lesser of two evils wins, and fix the Democratic party from within. Hell, fix the voting system and go third party, I don’t care. Its not like I’m not sick of this shit too. I can’t fucking wait for a time when the D’s don’t have the trumppocalypse to scare voters into giving them a pass for their bullshit.

I’m not some young radical. I’ve been through many cycles, and I’ve worked on more campaigns then most of people have voted in.

And yes, I’ve worked inside the DNC apparatus and been around contemporary Democratic machine politics nearly my entire life. I have a pretty good idea of what these people are like, because I’ve known a whole lot of them.

Doubt.

So… you’re counterpoint is that if I don’t support them, they’ll just keep doing what they’re already doing?

Yes, that’s my point exactly.

The only way to correct that, is to retrain them on who’s needs they need to be responsive to. Absent becoming a billionaire who supports the 99%, the only way is to not support them, and be vocal about why.

Here is the painful truth that I realized back when I thought the way you do: They don’t give a flying fuck about us. We’re not numerous enough to sit out, be vocal, and hope they feel our absence. They didn’t in 2016. They didn’t in 2020. They won’t in 2024. We’re too fringe and too few. They just see us as fickle and hard to please extremists. We’d need to bring way more mainstream people with us to be heard. Hell, Gaza is actually getting some mainstream attention and Biden is still blocking UN action and sending Israel billions in weapons.

The average democrat voter is more than willing to guzzle the party’s liberal bullshit. Catering to “independents” and the disillusioned right pulls in more than enough votes to outweigh the left vocally sitting out. Have you watched any mainstream media?

We need to change the party from within. Be present and involved. Vote in primaries for leftists and support them. Run in the primaries if there aren’t leftists. The thing is that most voters want leftist policies once they understand how they’ll benefit from them.

In the meantime, there legitimately may not be an election in 2028 if this fucking psychopath wanna be mob boss gets another shot at a coup. It won’t fucking matter after that - making political change will take civil war.