The safety argument doesn’t hold when the alternative is US cars. Chinese cars often get 5/5 on EuroNCAP, while US trucks don’t even qualify to get tested.

@[email protected] once we see the canadian government keep the EV tariffs anyways despite the separate tariff war with america; it’ll become clear how much of a spectacle this is since little of it impacts the ruling classes as much as it does ordinary people.

At this point I’d rather support China than the US.

It’s one thing to bang on about totalitarian governments blah blah, it’s another to see a democracy willfully and deliberately vote in that disgusting pig of a man.

China really, really doesn’t play fair on the global stage.

What does it mean to “play fair”? Who made the rules and what is so unfair about what China is doing? If it works why don’t we do it too?

It’s very likely that many parts of those vehicles are sold to these companies by CCP owned or partly-owned businesses, from the steel to the leather to the plastics, these cars are cheap for a reason.

So state owned industry is more efficient than privatized industry, is that what you’re complaining about? Then why don’t we in the West adopt the same model as China? Why don’t we nationalize our industries as well so we can provide our car manufacturers with cheap parts? Why is it “unfair” to have a better economic model? And what’s wrong with subsidies? Our states give out a ton of subsidies too, including to agriculture, fossil fuel, and yes the auto industry.

that’s why those tariffs exist, because if they do flood the market with cheap vehicles

This is fundamentally an anti-free trade position. I thought that’s what capitalism was about: whoever makes their product cheaper than their competitors wins in the free market competition, no? And if there’s a problem with the quality then the market will adjust for that. People who are short on cash will buy the cheaper but less qualitative products, while those with more money will be able to afford higher quality. Isn’t that how the free market is supposed to work?

Only…China’s EV’s aren’t even low quality, are they? They’re cheaper and they’re just as good or better. So what you’re saying is they’re simply outcompeting us. And because we can’t compete we need to shut them out.

Ok…well, i have no issue with that logic. Only please let’s apply it to the rest of the world as well. When developing countries can’t compete with Western industrial products, they should be allowed to tariff them as much as necessary or even shut them out entirely to support their own domestic production. You agree then that the WTO and IMF shouldn’t go to them and force them to open up their markets or sign free trade agreements?

it’s important that we’re not wholly enriching a foreign nation […] at the expense of our own.

When you agree to buy something you don’t just give the other party money for nothing. In return you get a product, presumably of equal value to what you paid. So isn’t your country being also enriched equally when it buys EVs? This is the liberal free trade theory right? If you freely agreed to a trade it must be fair. There is no such thing as an unequal trade in liberal theory. You’re not some kind of godless Marxist, are you?

In fact, if these vehicles are somehow “artificially cheap” (putting aside the little inconsistency that liberal economics doesn’t recognize the labor theory of value and instead maintains that value comes purely from exchange, meaning that a product is technically always worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it), then aren’t you getting an awesome deal? You get EVs that, according to you, are supposed to be worth more than what you paid for them since China is “cheating” and making them cheaper than they should be. Which means your country actually is getting richer in this exchange!

So what’s the problem? Isn’t having abundant, cheap EVs good for the people and good for the environment? Why do you want poor people to not be able to afford EVs?

especially one that has shown it is happy to clandestinely meddle in Canadian affairs

Ah yes, the old Yellow Peril McCarthyist tactic. Great choice. Always a sign of healthy politics and good social stability when your politicians and media start to foster an atmosphere of paranoia and accuse people of a different ethnicity of being spies, saboteurs and traitors to the nation. How dare the evil other interfere in our country when we have never, ever meddled in their internal affairs!

Canada would never support false allegations to discredit China’s government, or back separatists and violent mobs in order to destabilize China! Canada would never associate with opposition politicians in other countries whose government they don’t like. Never!

It’s very likely that many parts of those vehicles are sold to these companies by CCP owned or partly-owned businesses, from the steel to the leather to the plastics, these cars are cheap for a reason.

Tell me you have 0 understanding of the socialist market economy without telling me you have 0 understanding.

You get electric vehicles, they get money. What’s the problem?

I think you raise a lot of important points and am a little annoyed at the downvotes when you’re clearly participating on the level in this conversation.

I do want to add though that tarrifs in this situation are a bit of a bandaid on a bad wound that the western world allowed to fester for more than a decade now. China’s been doing some questionable stuff to gain market dominance, yes, but the west should have been answering in kind all along instead of trying to play catchup with even more questionable economic tricks.

Not reallu sure what to suggest as an alternative though. Just really a shame it was allowed to come to this when anyone with a brain ten years ago could see how important EVs would be in the future.

I did not know that, but wouldnt be surprised if they are a degree subjugated by the US in some way.