Unsure if relevant, since this is a meme post, but for anyone interested: faith is quite a complex concept. And this silly atheist vs religious conflict is so pointless. It does nothing but elevate some people’s egos and infuriate others.
Sadly, both sides are heavily uninformed. Most atheists spent at most 3 seconds studying religion, while most religious people never questioned a single thing about their religion. How can you understand somebody and their point of view, if you haven’t even imagined yourself in their shoes, let alone walked in them?
Short story is: to ‘believe’ in God, or any other religious entity, does not mean ‘to think He exists’. In fact, you can ‘believe’ in any god, while being completely convinced they don’t exist. Fact and faith are fully separate.
At least some confusion here is intentionally created by religious institutions, like the Catholic Church. Most of what they do goes against the Bible and Jesus’ teachings, but it’s not like they care. Focusing on Christianity here, because that’s what I studied the most (my country is Christian). Same applies to Judaism and Islam. Other religions less, since these three have the biggest, most organized official structures (massive red flag in case it wasn’t obvious).
Anyway, I invite everyone to read about and learn their so-called enemies’ ways instead of blindly ridiculing them.
I’d wager most millenial-and-older atheists probably attended mass regularly as kids. Many are probably baptized, confirmed, had communion, etc.
We just realized it’s all bullshit intended for social control at some point along the way.
Same kids who stopped saying the pledge in school as soon as they realized they could.
Zoomer and younger atheists…yeah, they might have not had that experience. Probably because they were brought up by already-atheist (or at least barely-believing, twice-a-year types) gen-x and older millennials.
Completely agree. I had the same experiences as a kid. Organized religious institutions always go against the religions they pretend to preach. Religious belief should be a personal choice, not a mass brain washing.
The Catholic Church requires that Christians indoctrine their children into Christianity since they are born. But this is the Church speaking, not Christianity or Jesus. In fact, the New Testament clearly says that it is perfectly acceptable for the family of a Christian to reject Christianity. The sole fact that they love the part of their family that is Christian, is enough.
But of course, barely any self-proclaimed Christians have ever opened the Bible, let alone read it. And the Church coveniently doesn’t recommend reading it.
My paternal grandparents were very religious, and my dad attended mass regularly as a kid and went to Catholic school.
However, I don’t think he’s willingly set foot into a church except for funerals since I was born.
My grandmother would drag me to church several times a week though.
Didn’t stop my dad from threatening to baptize my kid behind my back when my first kid was a baby. I think it was said in jest, or maybe to troll me…but my oldest is 8 now and neither of my kids have been around my parents unsupervised. Reap what you sow.
And the Church coveniently doesn’t recommend reading it.
That’s their own fault. Should’ve left it in Latin. Or Aramaic.
Second, that isn’t how everyone feels. That is how you feel. People do in fact find it utterly hypocritical to see one thing one way and not the other and then claim to have knowledge above anyone else.
Third, aliens are more likely than gods. Mathematically speaking.
Reading the Bible has made me despise Christianity even more. It’s not the content that upsets me, it’s the brash hypocrisy that Christian Nationalists operate by that upsets me. Too many Christians go directly against Christs teachings. It’s not rocket science either. It’s clear, concise teachings to love your neighbor as thyself… And yet they’ll say oh no that’s taken out of context… Fucking ridiculous. Christ would flip so many Christian tables. That might be what the second coming is tbh. Just flipping these flagrant hypocrites tables.
This makes no sense. Most people when asked about the literal existence of god say they think so. Americans only fell below 50% very recently…again the literal existence of god (the numbers are similar for the Gallup poll on belief in god). You’re drawing a dichotomy that does not exist.
About half of American adults believe in the actual existence of a spiritual patriarchy and here you are trying to claim belief!=belief in existence. Unless you have something to back it up, I’m calling bs.
What you’re saying is completely true, but in no way contradicts what I said. I was referring to the fundamental idea of faith. I never said people adhere to it, and that nobody actually thinks God, or whatever else, exists.
Obviously, a lot of people do. Just like a lot of people think the Earth is flat or that chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows. A huge number of people are uneducated, have been fed propaganda and manipulated for years. I don’t think anyone needs any convincing that churches lie to and scam people on a daily basis for personal gain. But doesn’t make faith or religion itself a lie.
Similarly, there’s quite a few self improvement gurus who make up false ideas about self improvement and feed lies to their many, many followers. But does that make self improvement itself a lie, or a pointless dream?
Short story is: to ‘believe’ in God, or any other religious entity, does not mean ‘to think He exists’. In fact, you can ‘believe’ in any god, while being completely convinced they don’t exist. Fact and faith are fully separate.
I’m still somewhat confused about the distinction they are drawing, but it seems to be that yes we who are not morons can acknowledge scammers exist in a given field while not completely ignoring the value of that field.
Where it gets dicey for me is that from my pov the vast majority of religious “leaders” and self help people are scammers, and most people who are doing actually good work in these areas are not exactly prominent. “Do good works” doesn’t make money. “Treat yourself well” doesn’t make money. Because these people work within capitalism, they require a constant revenue stream and the positive aspects of these areas don’t provide that revenue stream.
I don’t need to analyze religion to know that 9000 gods on this earth means not a single one of them is right and that single one of them is just a money scam, no further deep thinking needed, magical thinking, fuck that
Unsure if relevant, since this is a meme post, but for anyone interested: faith is quite a complex concept. And this silly atheist vs religious conflict is so pointless. It does nothing but elevate some people’s egos and infuriate others.
Sadly, both sides are heavily uninformed. Most atheists spent at most 3 seconds studying religion, while most religious people never questioned a single thing about their religion. How can you understand somebody and their point of view, if you haven’t even imagined yourself in their shoes, let alone walked in them?
Short story is: to ‘believe’ in God, or any other religious entity, does not mean ‘to think He exists’. In fact, you can ‘believe’ in any god, while being completely convinced they don’t exist. Fact and faith are fully separate.
At least some confusion here is intentionally created by religious institutions, like the Catholic Church. Most of what they do goes against the Bible and Jesus’ teachings, but it’s not like they care. Focusing on Christianity here, because that’s what I studied the most (my country is Christian). Same applies to Judaism and Islam. Other religions less, since these three have the biggest, most organized official structures (massive red flag in case it wasn’t obvious).
Anyway, I invite everyone to read about and learn their so-called enemies’ ways instead of blindly ridiculing them.
You’re using the term faith differently than everybody else.
I’d wager most millenial-and-older atheists probably attended mass regularly as kids. Many are probably baptized, confirmed, had communion, etc.
We just realized it’s all bullshit intended for social control at some point along the way.
Same kids who stopped saying the pledge in school as soon as they realized they could.
Zoomer and younger atheists…yeah, they might have not had that experience. Probably because they were brought up by already-atheist (or at least barely-believing, twice-a-year types) gen-x and older millennials.
Completely agree. I had the same experiences as a kid. Organized religious institutions always go against the religions they pretend to preach. Religious belief should be a personal choice, not a mass brain washing.
The Catholic Church requires that Christians indoctrine their children into Christianity since they are born. But this is the Church speaking, not Christianity or Jesus. In fact, the New Testament clearly says that it is perfectly acceptable for the family of a Christian to reject Christianity. The sole fact that they love the part of their family that is Christian, is enough.
But of course, barely any self-proclaimed Christians have ever opened the Bible, let alone read it. And the Church coveniently doesn’t recommend reading it.
Funny you should mention that.
My paternal grandparents were very religious, and my dad attended mass regularly as a kid and went to Catholic school.
However, I don’t think he’s willingly set foot into a church except for funerals since I was born.
My grandmother would drag me to church several times a week though.
Didn’t stop my dad from threatening to baptize my kid behind my back when my first kid was a baby. I think it was said in jest, or maybe to troll me…but my oldest is 8 now and neither of my kids have been around my parents unsupervised. Reap what you sow.
That’s their own fault. Should’ve left it in Latin. Or Aramaic.
First, paragraph breaks. Please use them.
Second, that isn’t how everyone feels. That is how you feel. People do in fact find it utterly hypocritical to see one thing one way and not the other and then claim to have knowledge above anyone else.
Third, aliens are more likely than gods. Mathematically speaking.
Statistically speaking*
Added paragraph breaks and will try to use them actively.
As mentioned in another reply, I was referring to the base idea, and not to what people think or feel. Perhaps I failed to convey that effectively.
Probably true. Hard to say for certain, but as far as I can tell, ‘aliens’ are practically guaranteed to exist, while gods are the opposite.
Reading the Bible has made me despise Christianity even more. It’s not the content that upsets me, it’s the brash hypocrisy that Christian Nationalists operate by that upsets me. Too many Christians go directly against Christs teachings. It’s not rocket science either. It’s clear, concise teachings to love your neighbor as thyself… And yet they’ll say oh no that’s taken out of context… Fucking ridiculous. Christ would flip so many Christian tables. That might be what the second coming is tbh. Just flipping these flagrant hypocrites tables.
This makes no sense. Most people when asked about the literal existence of god say they think so. Americans only fell below 50% very recently…again the literal existence of god (the numbers are similar for the Gallup poll on belief in god). You’re drawing a dichotomy that does not exist.
About half of American adults believe in the actual existence of a spiritual patriarchy and here you are trying to claim belief!=belief in existence. Unless you have something to back it up, I’m calling bs.
What you’re saying is completely true, but in no way contradicts what I said. I was referring to the fundamental idea of faith. I never said people adhere to it, and that nobody actually thinks God, or whatever else, exists.
Obviously, a lot of people do. Just like a lot of people think the Earth is flat or that chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows. A huge number of people are uneducated, have been fed propaganda and manipulated for years. I don’t think anyone needs any convincing that churches lie to and scam people on a daily basis for personal gain. But doesn’t make faith or religion itself a lie.
Similarly, there’s quite a few self improvement gurus who make up false ideas about self improvement and feed lies to their many, many followers. But does that make self improvement itself a lie, or a pointless dream?
So you refer with
to the church vs. belief thing?
“I don’t think anyone needs any convincing that churches lie to and scam people on a daily basis for personal gain.”
And yet televangelists exist. Megachurches exist. Churches have been scamming Christs sheep for millennia all for them to be none the wiser.
I’m still somewhat confused about the distinction they are drawing, but it seems to be that yes we who are not morons can acknowledge scammers exist in a given field while not completely ignoring the value of that field.
Where it gets dicey for me is that from my pov the vast majority of religious “leaders” and self help people are scammers, and most people who are doing actually good work in these areas are not exactly prominent. “Do good works” doesn’t make money. “Treat yourself well” doesn’t make money. Because these people work within capitalism, they require a constant revenue stream and the positive aspects of these areas don’t provide that revenue stream.
I don’t need to analyze religion to know that 9000 gods on this earth means not a single one of them is right and that single one of them is just a money scam, no further deep thinking needed, magical thinking, fuck that
Deep thinking is never needed. Animals manage their entire lives just fine without it!