No, because in all times the elites don’t have to fight, while the plebs must die for [insert abstract concept].
100% against.
People don’t belong to the government, and shouldn’t be forced into doing any sort of job, especially one where they could be killed or traumatized for life.
If the people think their country is worth fighting for and a threat is legitimate, they should choose to defend it if the system is working properly.
I’ll speak from the perspective of Greece, which has mandatory military service for all males >= 18yo that lasts a full year.
It makes sense that the country needs conscripts and a population that knows how to fight, since we have a neighbor that doesn’t play so nice with their surrounding countries.
However the way it’s implemented is pure bullshit:
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The actual training happens in the first few months, after that it’s just free manual labour.
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You get to deal with so much BS from the permanent staff, they have a huge superiority complex that you have to accept and play by in order to not have penalties or military prison.
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You can’t go home, can’t see your loved ones, your life is basically shit except the days that you’re given leave, which is around a month or so in total.
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You get no sleep and work all day, it’s a common phenomenon to sleep 3 hours every day.
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It’s unpaid. (it’s actually 8.5 euro a month which is arguably worse than unpaid, it’s like getting spat on the face)
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You pay for lots of things, travelling to/from the base, buying food outside etc.
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It’s corrupt as fuck. There are so many people that know someone in the military or meet someone inside, and get very special treatment while the rest have to work twice as hard to cover up for them.
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It is extremely hard to avoid it completely, there are parents with little kids that are missing from home for months because of it, there are poor people that can’t afford not to be working but still have to go, there are mentally ill people that aren’t given a full exclusion.
And it used to be much worse than this, we’re the ones that “have it good”…
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No one should ever be forced to fight or die for something they don’t believe in.
The entire idea of fighting “for your country” is ridiculous to me. It’s not my country.
Almost the entire human race has no influence on the events that occur at all.
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This is how they keep humanity not moving forward. By making us focus on our differences instead of our similarities. An eternal conflict that never ends, preventing our species from focusing on other things than war with itself.
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Exactly, we get randomly born in a spot on Earth and then we are supposed to feel love for our country? Why?
Is there anything to be proud of for each country? All I see is politicians trying to gain popularity by lying, wars being started and finished with lies and propaganda, and citizens being generally unhappy and ignored.
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I think I feel anger about it, but I have also given up on them. The future will only be worse. I think we were much better off in the 70s and 80s.
It’s not my country.
Yep… it’s always “our country” this and “our country” that when they need you to play cannon fodder - and when it’s all over, it just goes straight back to being their country. No different than rich people telling us how we’re “all in this together” during COVID.
It’s cute how they tell everyone we can just go vote to have a lot of influence on things too. :)
As if any of us has any influence on what’s going on whatsoever.
There are two main reasons to conscript citizens. The first, to fight wars, has largely faded into irrelevance (barring exceptions for those waging war, like Russia, or those defending their country, like Ukraine). For the most part wars are better fought by paid professionals.
It’s the second type of conscription that I will discuss. Many governments promote a system of national service for reasons of social cohesion, (the so-called Scandinavian model). It has much to recommend it. It creates a shared experience in otherwise fragmented societies, breaking down barriers of class, race and gender. It can be used to instil the values of a country in its population. It builds respect for the armed forces, teaching civilians that their freedom ultimately depends on others’ willingness to kill and be killed. And it subjects a pampered population to a bracing dose of spartan clean living, away from iPads and alcopops.
The problem is in the implementation. Social service should not be confined to the young. One of the biggest divides in society is generational, and national service only for the young would not change that. Moreover it would do many older folks a lot of good to learn the value of inclusion and diversity.
For the most part wars are better fought by paid professionals.
That only goes for dirty wars that you have no good reason to fight.
It has much to recommend it. It creates a shared experience in otherwise fragmented societies, breaking down barriers of class, race and gender.
The US would like to disagree.
It can be used to instil the values of a country in its population.
In other words… nationalist brainwashing.
And it subjects a pampered population
Only a boomer could think this.
To you first point… are you really saying that professional troops are less effective than untrained conscripts who really don’t want to be there?
Cuz that much at least is true.
Ukraine might be justified- and it might be necessary and even right- to have conscription… but a professional army would have been much more effective, at least at the start of the war.
are you really saying that professional troops are less effective than untrained conscripts who really don’t want to be there?
Firstly… there is absolutely no rule that says conscripts have to be untrained, just like there’s no rule that says a conscript wouldn’t necessarily want to be there - but that’s irrelevant to the question at hand.
More importantly, yes - a citizen army can be more effective than a professionalized one. Napoleon Bonaparte’s armies proved that to the world to such a degree that military theorists of the time literally thought the professional military obsolete. Of course, the problem with a citizen army is that you have to animate the citizenry with a cause that can actually be justified - kind of a difficult thing to do if you’re waging colonialist wars that only benefit the wealthy half-way around the world. Which is what a professional military is good for - that’s why the US didn’t experience the same level of revolt in the ranks during the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan as they did during the war on Vietnam.
but a professional army would have been much more effective
Ukraine did have a professional army at the start of the war - almost all countries do. Not even NATO would be able to defeat Russia with a purely professionalized force - that’s pure fantasy.
Conscription is not good or needed, the modern military is equipped with a wide array of technology and the best training available, it takes year(s) to fully train a soldier. There was a time when you could hand a consript a gun and point him in a the right direction and you had an army, in a modern conflict that lack of training is lethal.
Also in an all volunteer force it’s hard enough to manage groups who volunteered to be in the military, I can’t imagine controlling people who were forced to be there.
Conscription is a crime against humanity and an androcide. I hope I live to see the day where the participators of operating this inhuman system are punished.
I think mandatory military service is likely a good thing for a population (maybe not the individual). With a highly trained population, volunteering would likely increase and reduce the need for conscription during times of war.
The benefits of military service for young adults are numerous. Discipline, exercise, comeradity, professional exposure, etc. Could reduce some of the mental issues we see due to isolation through technology. Of course I’m taking in peace time.
Annihilation of critical thinking, cultivation of blind obedience, proportion of violence as the main way of resolving conflict. Yeah, that’s not bad at all.
Not all militaries function in this way. I’m sorry yours does.
As an example, Israel has the concept of Rosh Gadol which empowers members of it’s service to be better than the system itself.
Given the atrocities committed, I’d say they’ve failed utterly.
Yes, because the army is a good place to form well behaved, totally stable young adults and is not a place where far right radicals get gun training and recruit people that can easily be influenced 👍
There are many very left leaving countries with mandatory military training now and in the past.
You may be significant referring to the US military, and in that instance I completely agree with you.
