I only started using the term after the election, I wish I was paid. It’s crazy how I’m expected to shut up about it for the next 4 years. Apparently, asking the dems to change their stance on genocide of everything is too much and everyone would rather stick their head in the sand. The moment someone enables it just a bit more then them, they get none of the blame and we get to wait through 4 years of shit just for them to give us literally the same stance.
Both parties enable it and are complicit. Defending either on the subject is clear bootlicking imo.
No one is defending either on the subject. We are simply stating that one is WORSE than the other by an order of magnitude. Honestly, how can you not see that?
I’ve seen multiple videos of people walking around interviewing people that voted for him and asking why. Lots of them stated that Biden arming Israel against Gaza was a major concern for them. None of the interviewers dug into what they hoped would change but it was clear they expected Trump to improve the situation for the people of Gaza. Now I’ve got no idea why they thought that - I certainly never saw anything to make me think that - but lots of people seemed have got that message.
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out and you have to weigh all the other policy positions, and even then, it is clear that donvict is a TERRIBLE choice compared to Kamala.
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out
Not true.
You can refuse to support both of them because they are both evil, and you morally should not support evil. Even if one evil person will put more money in your pocket, or if one person will smile at you while your rights are being eroded while telling you nothing is wrong.
This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people. Congratulations on keeping your hands clean while failing to prevent avoidable deaths. I hope your sense of moral vanity is satisfied.
This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people.
Nah, it’s rejecting the entire scenario as being made up. Why not fucking stop the trolley?!?!? Its our foot on the throttle making it run people over!!
You “rejected the scenario” but didn’t actually stop the trolley, and now it’s crushing people. Brilliant fucking job there with your out of the box thinking!
Here’s my excuse: I’m not American, and I’m not going to refrain from criticising a genocidal monster just because Americans treat their political parties like sportsteams.
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
Read the rest of the comments. It’s always the same thing. The dems lost because the voters got manipulated into thinking genocide was something to draw a line over. Well it fucking was. I still think not voting and voting for Trump of all people is massively stupid but I hate the message we are sending.
Trump isn’t worse, he’s the same on it. We shouldn’t be calling them anything other then Genocide Joe and Genocide Trump. Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
We have 4 years to exert pressure and make sure the next candidate isn’t a mossad and wallstreet plant. Instead we are infighting like peasants and trying are hardest to not hold the politicians who are suppose to represent us accountable.
Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
Now Trump has already undone most of that good, has 4 more years to cause damage, and the genocide that you “drew a line over” hasn’t stopped. Nice job.
I voted strategically but I shouldnt have to do it while gritting my teeth. They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win. If we keep pointing at scapegoats and refuse to lay the blame with the ones actually in charge, we get the same exact choice in 4 years and we will lose again.
Ya, drawing the line was dumb but so is blaming the ones that drew it instead of the driver that’s sending a train straight into a group of children.
they didnt offer nothing but it was ridiculous to parade around with Liz Cheney - possibly the least popular politician in the US. I can only think they were trying to get Trump elected
They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win.
Remember, nothing was…
A woman’s bodily autonomy.
A Trans person’s right to comfort in their body.
The separation between church and state.
A birthright citizens right to live in their country.
An employee’s right to a safe job.
And so much more… And it’s only been 7 days. Fuck anyone who said the Dems brought nothing to the table. You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.
You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.
I would find the lesser evil argument more convincing if the people advocating it didn’t always turn out to be genocide denying conspiracy theorists who will ignore reality to defend unspeakable acts
Seems like you’re not actually capable of pragmatically choosing the lesser evil while still condeming it. Seems like you always end up defending evil.
A woman’s bodily autonomy. A Trans person’s right to comfort in their body. The separation between church and state. A birthright citizens right to live in their country. An employee’s right to a safe job.
Hate to break it to you, but we were losing ground on all of that, even with Biden as POTUS. Hell, a fair chunk of that happened when Biden was POTUS, and Dems had a majority in the house and senate.
And yes, don’t talk to me “But Manchin/Sinema!!!”… Fuck off. Because if they were so bad, why were the dems funding those campaigns? Where was the party leaders, demanding their people get on the line, or else lose committee seats, lose money, etc etc.
And why didn’t the Dems drop the filibuster from the senate rules packages? Simple majority vote for everything.
Its almost like they pretended to want to do things to better the working class conditions, without actually doing anything, in order to provide a constant feed of campaign talking points to run on.
I’m not sure how old you are, but as someone who was alive when “Don’t ask don’t tell” was a progressive policy, I can assure you that while Republicans are constantly tripping up Democrats, 8 years of blue leadership can certainly gain ground. Hopefully you had that opinion because you’re young enough that you just assumed those rights were the status quo that was slowly slipping away, not realizing that they are a huge boulder that we’ve been slowing pushing up hill for the past century.
Sinema and Manchin are certainly to blame for a lack of progress, but we needed them to keep from slipping further, faster. Every spot filled by a republican just makes the rock heavier, the hill steeper, and the ground more treacherous.
I’m not sure how old you are, but as someone who was alive when “Don’t ask don’t tell” was a progressive policy
Yes, I’m familiar with it, but it was only an improvement. One that got passed because of falling recruitment numbers, and changing social landscape (Being gay becoming more acceptable), so the Military Industrial Complex needed to compete withe the rest of the job market.
It was considered “progressive” at the time, because it was better than separating already trained soldiers, and the public saw it as a win.
can assure you that while Republicans are constantly tripping up Democrats,
For as long as I can remember, its generally been Democrats tripping up Democrats… Yes, you read that correctly. Eventually, we get people young enough in office, because the incumbent finally died (Because, with Dems, don’t you fucking DARE challenge an incumbent, ESPECIALLY in local races).
So, less of a fight, and more succumbing to the times, is when we move forward. Just like right now, it’s less about what the GOP fought for, and more the malaise with the global population due to us facing a species extinction, while starving.
Hopefully you had that opinion because you’re young enough that you just assumed those rights were the status quo that was slowly slipping away, not realizing that they are a huge boulder that we’ve been slowing pushing up hill for the past century.
Hey! We have had like 40 years of “blue leadership” in my city, and guess what we have?
Oligarchs run the city, county, and state too! Our Dem mayor loves cops, thinks Trump has some good ideas, and our governor is looking forward to working with Trump… Our governor, also a Dem, who is quite obviously a conservative.
Sinema and Manchin are certainly to blame for a lack of progress, but we needed them to keep from slipping further, faster. Every spot filled by a republican just makes the rock heavier, the hill steeper, and the ground more treacherous.
How about instead of pretending Reich Wingers are progressive, we just pick progressives to run in those seats? You know, ones that actually listen to, and respond to the needs of their voters, instead of acting like voters owe the person their vote, just because of team colors?
Any president put in power in the US was going to provide aid to Israel one way or another. As abhorrent as Israel’s actions are, they are a US ally, and they did suffer major terrorist attack in October, and they are surrounded by other nations that would love to chop them up. Full stop, any aid sent to Israel should have been conditional, but it’s foolish to think that they would not have continued without US support. The situation is not black and white and our best chance of changing Israel’s actions were to elect Kamala, and put Democrats in Congress that are for conditional aid to Israel.
What was Russian disinfo was pushing the narrative that Kamala was a genocide supporter to Democrats, and not pushing the fact that if trump won, he was going to back Israel completely eradicating Palestinians from the Gaza strip.
Then it came out that such bombs were being sent and under pressure he paused the sending of those bombs.
Trump resumed it.
You’re whitewashing Biden’s part in the willful mass murder of civilians (the US Military itself refuses to use 2000lb bombs exactly because of their massive collateral damage and Israel was using them in an urban area thus maximizing the killing from said collateral damage) for political point scoring.
While you’re claiming the other poster “sucks” for being critical of Biden’s stance on this you might want to look at yourself in a mirror.
She was the only viable option other than trump, as pro-genocide centrists were so fond of gloating. I voted for her. You gonna gloat that I voted for your genocide now?
Do you actually, like, care about things like humanity or morality or anything like that? Or is this all just a team sport where your happy so long as you can get a ‘gotcha’ in?
There are a disturbing number of people in this thread who feel that condemning Democrats is more important than worrying about what is about to happen to Palestinians.
As if you folks were using genocide as a tool. And it’s pretty hard to read.
condemning Democrats is more important than worrying about what is about to happen to Palestinians.
Well, if we want to take it this way…
Yes, Trump’s open declaration of supporting a genocide in Palestine is just as bad as when Biden did it. They are both fucking ghouls, and I hope they both join Kissinger, Reagan, and Thatcher soon.
I don’t give a shit about Trump or Biden. I give a shit about Palestinians. And I have asked multiple people in this thread when they have ever asked a Palestinian what their needs are. You know how many people have told me when they did that? I’ll give you a hint: it’s less than one.
When you dismiss people condemning the democrats, you essentially send the message that enabling genocide is okay.
I see attacking the voters as a zionist dog whistle, to desensitize on the subject and low key make genocide something that can be overlooked for the “right” reasons.
Insulting to be said I’m using it as a tool. Every thread about it, there’s multiple comments talking about the voters and using them as a scapegoat. I’m just responding to them. If I’m using it as a tool, so are you. And you are a lot more vocal about it then me.
Seems like you’re dismissing only the people responding to the behavior negatively and not the ones actually doing the behavior. I find it convenient that you are constantly silent on the genocide in general. I only see you commenting when it comes to pointing the finger at scapegoats. It’s easy to notice with the amount you post (not an insult, just an observation, I don’t mind high engagement).
It doesn’t seem like you are arguing in good faith, since you accuse me of something I’m clearly trying to curtail.
Yes it’s annoying when every thread about the genocide has people screaming at the top of their lungs trying to blame voters.
I have more to say on the subject but I was too harsh and got my comment removed so I will leave it at that.
Feeling empathy for a population isn’t contigent on direct communication with them. Pure rhetoric. But to answer your question, I have a good friend who’s Palestinian. He’s been here for many years but it was still brutal to see how it affected him. So yes, I’ve talked to them.
You are also dismissing only the people that don’t align with your beliefs. You are clearly only pushing one side, the one that makes light of the genocide and seeks to divert attention to anyone who isn’t Biden and by extent Israel, and it’s easy to assume why.
You are also dismissing only the people that don’t align with your beliefs.
I never said you defended him directly. I’m saying you only blame voters and only dismiss comments being critical of Biden. I’ve repeated this many times.
You reinforce the idea that the voters are to blame because obviously, applauding Biden would show your pro genocide stance a bit too clearly.
If you only criticize one group, you are still taking sides.
I know how you argue bro, stop with the rhetoric. Are you really going to pretend you are impartial? I’ve seen you directly start commment chains more then once on the subject and it was always to blame voters.
I am dismissing people continuing to talk about the election when it’s over as if it matters when people are fucking dying.
Did it matter 30 days ago to you? If so, why do you support the person wanting to continue it, and blame voters for not wanting either of the genociders?
Of course it mattered to me 30 days ago. It mattered to me when this genocide started which is why I have been doing everything in my very limited powers to stop it. What have you done?
I only started using the term after the election, I wish I was paid. It’s crazy how I’m expected to shut up about it for the next 4 years. Apparently, asking the dems to change their stance on genocide of everything is too much and everyone would rather stick their head in the sand. The moment someone enables it just a bit more then them, they get none of the blame and we get to wait through 4 years of shit just for them to give us literally the same stance.
Both parties enable it and are complicit. Defending either on the subject is clear bootlicking imo.
No one is defending either on the subject. We are simply stating that one is WORSE than the other by an order of magnitude. Honestly, how can you not see that?
It’s not just that he’s much worse it’s that some people somehow expected him to be better?!?
I don’t think anyone realistically thought he’d be “better”, unless you count the scum who consider “More dying” to be “better”.
I’ve seen multiple videos of people walking around interviewing people that voted for him and asking why. Lots of them stated that Biden arming Israel against Gaza was a major concern for them. None of the interviewers dug into what they hoped would change but it was clear they expected Trump to improve the situation for the people of Gaza. Now I’ve got no idea why they thought that - I certainly never saw anything to make me think that - but lots of people seemed have got that message.
nice anecdote, it decisively proves the argument
I see a lot of people actively defending Biden in this very thread
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out and you have to weigh all the other policy positions, and even then, it is clear that donvict is a TERRIBLE choice compared to Kamala.
They have no excuse. None.
Not true.
You can refuse to support both of them because they are both evil, and you morally should not support evil. Even if one evil person will put more money in your pocket, or if one person will smile at you while your rights are being eroded while telling you nothing is wrong.
This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people. Congratulations on keeping your hands clean while failing to prevent avoidable deaths. I hope your sense of moral vanity is satisfied.
Nah, it’s rejecting the entire scenario as being made up. Why not fucking stop the trolley?!?!? Its our foot on the throttle making it run people over!!
You “rejected the scenario” but didn’t actually stop the trolley, and now it’s crushing people. Brilliant fucking job there with your out of the box thinking!
So, why don’t you help me stop the trolley from killing anyone, instead of blaming me that you keep mashing down the throttle?
That is a great explanation of how I feel too.
Here’s my excuse: I’m not American, and I’m not going to refrain from criticising a genocidal monster just because Americans treat their political parties like sportsteams.
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
Read the rest of the comments. It’s always the same thing. The dems lost because the voters got manipulated into thinking genocide was something to draw a line over. Well it fucking was. I still think not voting and voting for Trump of all people is massively stupid but I hate the message we are sending.
Trump isn’t worse, he’s the same on it. We shouldn’t be calling them anything other then Genocide Joe and Genocide Trump. Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
We have 4 years to exert pressure and make sure the next candidate isn’t a mossad and wallstreet plant. Instead we are infighting like peasants and trying are hardest to not hold the politicians who are suppose to represent us accountable.
Now Trump has already undone most of that good, has 4 more years to cause damage, and the genocide that you “drew a line over” hasn’t stopped. Nice job.
I voted strategically but I shouldnt have to do it while gritting my teeth. They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win. If we keep pointing at scapegoats and refuse to lay the blame with the ones actually in charge, we get the same exact choice in 4 years and we will lose again.
Ya, drawing the line was dumb but so is blaming the ones that drew it instead of the driver that’s sending a train straight into a group of children.
they didnt offer nothing but it was ridiculous to parade around with Liz Cheney - possibly the least popular politician in the US. I can only think they were trying to get Trump elected
Remember, nothing was…
A woman’s bodily autonomy. A Trans person’s right to comfort in their body. The separation between church and state. A birthright citizens right to live in their country. An employee’s right to a safe job.
And so much more… And it’s only been 7 days. Fuck anyone who said the Dems brought nothing to the table. You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.
I would find the lesser evil argument more convincing if the people advocating it didn’t always turn out to be genocide denying conspiracy theorists who will ignore reality to defend unspeakable acts
Seems like you’re not actually capable of pragmatically choosing the lesser evil while still condeming it. Seems like you always end up defending evil.
Hate to break it to you, but we were losing ground on all of that, even with Biden as POTUS. Hell, a fair chunk of that happened when Biden was POTUS, and Dems had a majority in the house and senate.
And yes, don’t talk to me “But Manchin/Sinema!!!”… Fuck off. Because if they were so bad, why were the dems funding those campaigns? Where was the party leaders, demanding their people get on the line, or else lose committee seats, lose money, etc etc.
And why didn’t the Dems drop the filibuster from the senate rules packages? Simple majority vote for everything.
Its almost like they pretended to want to do things to better the working class conditions, without actually doing anything, in order to provide a constant feed of campaign talking points to run on.
I’m not sure how old you are, but as someone who was alive when “Don’t ask don’t tell” was a progressive policy, I can assure you that while Republicans are constantly tripping up Democrats, 8 years of blue leadership can certainly gain ground. Hopefully you had that opinion because you’re young enough that you just assumed those rights were the status quo that was slowly slipping away, not realizing that they are a huge boulder that we’ve been slowing pushing up hill for the past century.
Sinema and Manchin are certainly to blame for a lack of progress, but we needed them to keep from slipping further, faster. Every spot filled by a republican just makes the rock heavier, the hill steeper, and the ground more treacherous.
Yes, I’m familiar with it, but it was only an improvement. One that got passed because of falling recruitment numbers, and changing social landscape (Being gay becoming more acceptable), so the Military Industrial Complex needed to compete withe the rest of the job market.
It was considered “progressive” at the time, because it was better than separating already trained soldiers, and the public saw it as a win.
For as long as I can remember, its generally been Democrats tripping up Democrats… Yes, you read that correctly. Eventually, we get people young enough in office, because the incumbent finally died (Because, with Dems, don’t you fucking DARE challenge an incumbent, ESPECIALLY in local races).
So, less of a fight, and more succumbing to the times, is when we move forward. Just like right now, it’s less about what the GOP fought for, and more the malaise with the global population due to us facing a species extinction, while starving.
Hey! We have had like 40 years of “blue leadership” in my city, and guess what we have?
Oligarchs run the city, county, and state too! Our Dem mayor loves cops, thinks Trump has some good ideas, and our governor is looking forward to working with Trump… Our governor, also a Dem, who is quite obviously a conservative.
How about instead of pretending Reich Wingers are progressive, we just pick progressives to run in those seats? You know, ones that actually listen to, and respond to the needs of their voters, instead of acting like voters owe the person their vote, just because of team colors?
Why are you ignoring all the funds and arms sent to this entire different country? Do you think all that military aid is Russian disinfo?
Any president put in power in the US was going to provide aid to Israel one way or another. As abhorrent as Israel’s actions are, they are a US ally, and they did suffer major terrorist attack in October, and they are surrounded by other nations that would love to chop them up. Full stop, any aid sent to Israel should have been conditional, but it’s foolish to think that they would not have continued without US support. The situation is not black and white and our best chance of changing Israel’s actions were to elect Kamala, and put Democrats in Congress that are for conditional aid to Israel.
What was Russian disinfo was pushing the narrative that Kamala was a genocide supporter to Democrats, and not pushing the fact that if trump won, he was going to back Israel completely eradicating Palestinians from the Gaza strip.
Then they could have continued without US support. If anyone in the biden white house or anyone in his wing of the party had wanted to withdraw it.
Trump immediately authorized 2000 lb bombs for Israel. That wasn’t a thing before. He’s worse and you suck for enabling him.
I do not know how to explain to Blue MAGA that symbolic gestures do not matter more than the actual material effect on Gaza.
I mean one 2000 lbs bomb, or 2 1000 lbs bombs… The result is the same: A genocide.
Biden authorized sending 2000lb bombs.
Then it came out that such bombs were being sent and under pressure he paused the sending of those bombs.
Trump resumed it.
You’re whitewashing Biden’s part in the willful mass murder of civilians (the US Military itself refuses to use 2000lb bombs exactly because of their massive collateral damage and Israel was using them in an urban area thus maximizing the killing from said collateral damage) for political point scoring.
While you’re claiming the other poster “sucks” for being critical of Biden’s stance on this you might want to look at yourself in a mirror.
I hope you’re right about four years because that’s a return to normalcy that I can barely imagine right now
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We’re easy to dismiss that way. Then they don’t have to think about how monstrous they have been to support genocide all this time.
Did you say you voted for Kamala?
She was the only viable option other than trump, as pro-genocide centrists were so fond of gloating. I voted for her. You gonna gloat that I voted for your genocide now?
Yep! You voted for genocide. Thanks for admitting that.
Do you actually, like, care about things like humanity or morality or anything like that? Or is this all just a team sport where your happy so long as you can get a ‘gotcha’ in?
It’s all gotchas, that’s liberal policy and debate tactics.
Gloat more. Trump is implementing the only thing you support.
That’s pretty hypocritical considering you support it too.
The paid shills were running a con. If you weren’t on payroll, then you’re the mark.
Seeing how most of the conmen have cut and run now that the job is done, it really only leaves one option for you.
There are a disturbing number of people in this thread who feel that condemning Democrats is more important than worrying about what is about to happen to Palestinians.
As if you folks were using genocide as a tool. And it’s pretty hard to read.
Well, if we want to take it this way…
Yes, Trump’s open declaration of supporting a genocide in Palestine is just as bad as when Biden did it. They are both fucking ghouls, and I hope they both join Kissinger, Reagan, and Thatcher soon.
I don’t give a shit about Trump or Biden. I give a shit about Palestinians. And I have asked multiple people in this thread when they have ever asked a Palestinian what their needs are. You know how many people have told me when they did that? I’ll give you a hint: it’s less than one.
How about you?
When you dismiss people condemning the democrats, you essentially send the message that enabling genocide is okay.
I see attacking the voters as a zionist dog whistle, to desensitize on the subject and low key make genocide something that can be overlooked for the “right” reasons.
Insulting to be said I’m using it as a tool. Every thread about it, there’s multiple comments talking about the voters and using them as a scapegoat. I’m just responding to them. If I’m using it as a tool, so are you. And you are a lot more vocal about it then me.
I am dismissing people continuing to talk about the election when it’s over as if it matters when people are fucking dying.
But you don’t care because American politics.
Seems like you’re dismissing only the people responding to the behavior negatively and not the ones actually doing the behavior. I find it convenient that you are constantly silent on the genocide in general. I only see you commenting when it comes to pointing the finger at scapegoats. It’s easy to notice with the amount you post (not an insult, just an observation, I don’t mind high engagement).
It doesn’t seem like you are arguing in good faith, since you accuse me of something I’m clearly trying to curtail.
Yes it’s annoying when every thread about the genocide has people screaming at the top of their lungs trying to blame voters.
I have more to say on the subject but I was too harsh and got my comment removed so I will leave it at that.
No, I’m dismissing anyone who doesn’t give enough of a shit about Palestinians to bother talking to them.
How often have you done it?
Feeling empathy for a population isn’t contigent on direct communication with them. Pure rhetoric. But to answer your question, I have a good friend who’s Palestinian. He’s been here for many years but it was still brutal to see how it affected him. So yes, I’ve talked to them.
You are also dismissing only the people that don’t align with your beliefs. You are clearly only pushing one side, the one that makes light of the genocide and seeks to divert attention to anyone who isn’t Biden and by extent Israel, and it’s easy to assume why.
Why are you lying? I have not once defended Biden. Not once.
My whole fucking point is that U.S. politics are not what is important here. I literally already said that in this comment chain.
Lying in order to argue with someone is pretty shitty behavior.
I never said you defended him directly. I’m saying you only blame voters and only dismiss comments being critical of Biden. I’ve repeated this many times.
You reinforce the idea that the voters are to blame because obviously, applauding Biden would show your pro genocide stance a bit too clearly.
If you only criticize one group, you are still taking sides.
I know how you argue bro, stop with the rhetoric. Are you really going to pretend you are impartial? I’ve seen you directly start commment chains more then once on the subject and it was always to blame voters.
Did it matter 30 days ago to you? If so, why do you support the person wanting to continue it, and blame voters for not wanting either of the genociders?
Of course it mattered to me 30 days ago. It mattered to me when this genocide started which is why I have been doing everything in my very limited powers to stop it. What have you done?
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