• Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    It’s not AI that is the problem, it’s half baked insecure data harvesting products pushed by big corporations that are the problem.

    • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
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      10 months ago

      The biggest joke is that the LLM in Windows is running locally, it uses your hardware and not some big external server farm. But you can bet your ass that they still use it to data harvest the shit out of you.

      • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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        10 months ago

        To me this is even worse though. They’re using your electricity and CPU cycles to grab the data they want which lowers their bandwidth bills.

        It happening “locally” while still sending all the metadata home is just a slap in the face.

        • NutWrench@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Also, CoPilot is going to be bundled with Office 365, a subscription service. You’re literally paying them to spy on you.

        • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
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          10 months ago

          Exactly. And if I use or even pay for an external LLM service then that’s also my decision. But they force this scheme onto every user, whether they want it or not. It’s like the worst out of all possible scenarios.

      • 👍Maximum Derek👍@discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 months ago

        That’s a pretty big joke, but I think the bigger joke is calling LLMs AI. We taught linear algebra to talk real pretty and now corps want to use it to completely subsume our lives.

        • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
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          10 months ago

          Oh I agree. I typically put “AI” in quotation marks when using that term regarding LLMs, because to me they simply are not intelligent in anyway. In my mind an AI would need an actual level of consciousness of sorts, the ability to form actual thoughts and learn things freely based on whatever senses it has. But AI is a term that’s good for marketing as well as fear mongering, which we see a lot of in current news cycles and on social media. The problem is that most people do not even understand the basic principles of how LLMs work, which lead to a lot of misconceptions about its uses & misuses and what we should do about it. Weirdly enough this makes LLMs both completely overhyped as a product and completely stigmatized as some nefarious tool as well. But I guess it fits into our today’s societies that kinda seem to have lost all nuance and reason.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I think the bigger joke is calling LLMs AI

          I have to disagree.

          Frankly, LLMs (which are based on neural networks) seem a Hell of a lot closer to how actual brains work than “classical AI” (which basically boils down to a gigantic pile of if statements) does.

          I guess I could agree that LLMs are undeserving of the term “AI”, but only in the sense that nothing we’ve made so far is deserving of it.

      • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Runs locally, mirrors remotely.

        To ensure a seamless customer experience when their hardware isn’t capable of running the model locally or if there is a problem with the local instance.

        microsoft, probably.

    • snooggums@midwest.social
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      10 months ago

      That is an accurate description of AI in common usage even if it isn’t an inherent aspect of AI.

    • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Locally run AI could be great. But sending all your data to an external server for processing is really, really bad.

    • psycho_driver@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      All true, and all a problem for which linux has been a solution (in the computing world) for decades now.

      • Andromxda 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        It’s not just Linux, but free & open source software in general. And it’s not just desktop PCs that are plagued by this corporate spyware, it’s much worse when looking at the mobile device landscape. The only real solution for mobile devices is GrapheneOS with FOSS software installed from the F-Droid marketplace. Browsers are also under attack by proprietary software corporations, Google just intentionally broke adblockers on all Chromium-based browsers, so they can generate more ad revenue. Last year, they tried to push a proposal that would have massively extended their monopoly on web browsers (WEI). All the streaming services are screwing their users over and increasing the subscription prices while making the content library smaller. It’s such a fucking scam, and it’s almost sad to see how many people are dumb enough to fall for it.

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      You’re not wrong. AI is just another tool to scrape cash to the top while eliminating jobs. Could it realize benefits like doing specialized research and testing? Sure…but again, the results of that work are lost human jobs and scraping money to the top. We can argue about advancing technology in a horse cart driver vs automobile thing (won’t anyone think about the poor farriers out of work?) but we’ve already done everything we can to eliminate blue collar jobs with as much automation as possible. Now AI is set to attack middle class jobs. Economically I don’t think that’s going to work out well.

      • nfh@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I mean, the problem isn’t the existence/obviation of jobs, but what we do next when it happens. If the people whose jobs are automated away are left out with no money or employment, that’s a serious problem. If we as a society support them in learning something new that puts their skills to good use, and maybe even reduce the expected working hours of a full-time job to 35 or 32 hours a week, that’s an absolute win in my book.

        • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Well that’s the point. We don’t support them as a society. From education to health care once you lose your job, you’re SOL, and in this hyper-capitalist dystopia we keep tipping towards I don’t see that changing.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Online shopping has removed a lot of retail jobs. Instead of seeing a transition to different jobs or fewer hours, today we see people working multiple jobs to get by.

          The reason these things are making money is specifically because they increase efficiency (how much money a capitalist can make from existing capital) by removing human labor. Giving any portion of that to laborers is completely antithetical to its entire purpose.

          • Petter1@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            Yea, this is because society system is lagging behind and we have not done the right changes fast enough to prevent suffering due to technological advancements, in my opinion

      • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        But as someone pointed out elsewhere…AI can already take over the job of company CEOs… decision making tools could make a group of technical people be more effective than a CEO as we know today.

        • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Let’s see how many CEOs get replaced.

          Don’t forget the BoD are still human. They still want to profit by putting the AI in place of the CEO.

  • just_another_person@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    “The Year Of Linux on Desktops”. Been hearing this for decades, but it might actually be happening. What I’m feeling now is the same thing I felt when Mozilla originally split Firefox out, and made the first real competition to corporate browsers as a free product. People don’t want all this bullshit, and want to retain control over the machines they are working on. Seems a lot more people are interested in FOSS environments now just to avoid all the other BS they hate getting shoveled at them.

    • rImITywR@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      “The Year Of Linux on Desktops”. Been hearing this for decades, but it might actually be happening.

      Been hearing this for decades.

      • randomname01@feddit.nl
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        10 months ago

        And it won’t ever be true until you can pick up a PC running Linux in a big box store. I could see the Steam Deck (and Valve’s rumoured upcoming console) to make a dent in the PC gaming space, but it won’t make a difference to the purchasing decisions of your your aunt who uses her pc to check her emails.

        Should corporate buyers ever get tired of MS’ shenanigans they might switch over to Ubuntu, but I’m not holding my breath for that.

        • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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          10 months ago

          At work, we have a strict ban on purchasing any laboratory equipment that requires Windows. After about a year, several of our suppliers have been pressured to offer Linux support, precisely because we don’t have time for windows shenanigans on a $100k piece of advanced benchtop hardware. We just got our first oscilloscope with Red Hat preinstalled.

          Also, regular people aren’t buying PCs as much as they used to. The PC is now a workplace and enthusiast device. Everyone else uses mobile.

          • plactagonic@sopuli.xyz
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            10 months ago

            The oldest version of Win I used was 95 about 2 years ago on chromatography machine (I think hplc or gas).

            It is to my knowledge still in use in the school because the software don’t run on newer machines. The teacher told me that he don’t know what will he do when it dies. It isn’t really an issue on Linux.

            • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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              10 months ago

              It might be worth trying it in Wine. It has great support for older software especially.

              Within the past year I have compiled new software for Windows 98.

              In a lab environment, it’s important to strictly control software versions and understand thoroughly what gets updated. We also want the ability to use the same version of software indefinitely if it meets our needs.

              • plactagonic@sopuli.xyz
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                10 months ago

                I think that there are more issues like archaic connectors and stuff like that. You can’t find new hardware with 30yo standard io.

            • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              O&G still uses a lot of old versions as well. I remember back in the Win 7 days when I had to set up a 95 virtual machine and register a bunch of DLLs by hand plus set up a fake A: drive because even the 95 version of the software was garbage. A friend of mine did something similar but he got it working on the Win 7 machine somehow. I never understood how, but he left a script behind at the company he worked for because it needed to be reinstalled every time someone did something stupid and he didn’t want to do it by hand.

          • ch00f@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            We ship a $50k instrument product running Windows, and everyone hates it.

            As the only EE on staff, I got to spend a portion of covid soldering TPM chips to motherboards. Fun times.

            • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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              10 months ago

              Wow, that sounds painful. Not so much because it’s technically difficult, but ridiculous that you have to do that.

              • ch00f@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Yeah, they were tssop, so not hard. It was only necessary because the parts shortage crunch had the vendor shipping them without the chips installed.

          • barsquid@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I find it unbelievable that anyone ever accepted lab equipment with a Windows requirement. I mean, I know it is true, but what the fuck? Glad your work is doing this.

            • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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              10 months ago

              I was not around at that time. Some of the systems I support are very long lived. At the time, having windows running on some of your equipment wasn’t seen as a liability. I guess you have to get bitten a few times before you understand that you need control of that system including the software.

          • Andromxda 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            10 months ago

            several of our suppliers have been pressured to offer Linux support

            We just got our first oscilloscope with Red Hat preinstalled.

            This is so cool. Really great to hear. I wish more companies and other institutions would do this. They have to realize that using Microsoft software won’t benefit them in the long term, and actually start pressuring hardware vendors into pre-installing Linux.

            • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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              10 months ago

              Part of that job is supporting fielded hardware and ground systems, think like automated test or verification systems. I think we’ve learned our lesson that we can’t afford to have unserviceable software.

              At least with Linux and generally with an open source baseline, there is the option of throwing engineers at your problem because you have access to the code, and you can strip down the system to the bare minimum of what you need, and in doing so, really understand it. We don’t want to get into a situation where our hands are tied and we can’t fix it because the problem lies in the proprietary software while the vendor has long since abandoned any hope of support… grumble…

              • Andromxda 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                10 months ago

                That kinda reminds me of my job, except that we build the unserviceable hardware and install Windows, as well as our proprietary software. Then we charge our customers shitloads of money for technical support. We’re a government contractor btw

                It’s actually a pretty nice company (from an employee standpoint), we use a lot of Linux internally, as well as other FOSS software. But porting our products to Linux is hopeless, we have decades of C++ code that either relies on Windows APIs directly, or on our custom libraries that rely on Windows-specific stuff.

          • Moorshou@lemmy.zip
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            10 months ago

            The only regular people I can think of are gamers and my mom but I would like the idea of PC’s returning to techie and specialized use cases

        • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          I’d argue the year of the Linux desktop passed years ago and now it’s just a saturation game. Most serious SW development is now on Linux laptops/desktops, Android owns the mobile space and versions are starting to make huge inroads in the laptop space. You can buy gaming systems running it trivially now.

          Conversely, casual users of windows are dying off, fewer non technical people are using desktops for anything at all. Only institutional users are buying Windows keys and they’re some of the easiest to get on Linux because of the cost savings, particularly if you run Linux server infrastructure, a fight we already won over a decade ago.

          • EnderMB@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Most serious SW development is now on Linux laptops/desktops,

            I’d love a source for this. To my knowledge, most people that build to Linux hosts still use OSX.

            • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              Source: I’m a super pro serious developer and I use Linux. QED if you don’t also use Linux, you’re not serious.

        • just_another_person@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          All the larger PC manufacturers do offer Ubuntu at least. There was a time when Best Buy was selling them from Dell and Lenovo, but I’m sure the staff couldn’t sufficiently explain the “why”, and it was also at a time when more technology illiterate folks were the purchasers. That’s not the case anymore, but I guess we will see how/if it shifts at all.

          • ch00f@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I loathe to be the BestBuy employee who sells a Linux box to a customer who only cares about the price difference.

        • TipRing@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Thanks to the Steamdeck Linux users on Steam now outnumber Mac users. Still a tiny percentage of total Steam users but if developers increase support we will hopefully see that number take off.

        • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          For me the hang up is still hardware compatibility and fuss factor. I still haven’t seen a windows app that will check all hardware and software and give a pain scale rating on what switching would involve. I have an Asus wifi 6 card, a stream deck, a Logitech trackball with Logitech customization software, a Logitech Webcam, a dygma keyboard running bazecor software. I’m sure there are some hidden headaches awaiting the transition. Once I finally get all that worked out, I will probably want to upgrade my surface and my ThinkPad as well and imagine even more headaches with these.

          • tal@lemmy.today
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            10 months ago

            I still haven’t seen a windows app that will check all hardware and software and give a pain scale rating on what switching would involve.

            You can just use a liveboot Linux image on a USB key drive and find out whether there are any issues.

            Here’s Debian’s liveboot images (which they apparently call “live install”):

            https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

            I imagine that most distros probably have a liveboot image, though I haven’t gone looking.

            USB drives are maybe slower than your internal SSD drive, but for rescue work or just seeing whether your hardware works, should be fine.

            I would expect everything that you listed there to work. The only thing I haven’t heard of on there is that dygma keyboard, and looking at their website, if this is the keyboard in question:

            https://dygma.com/pages/dygma-raise-2#section-faq

            Is the software compatible with macOS and Linux?

            Yes, our configurator software is compatible with macOS, Linux and even Windows.

            I mean, I dunno if Logitech puts out trackball software for Linux, but if what you want is macro software or configurable acceleration curves or something, there’s open-source stuff not tied to that particular piece of hardware. And the Steam Deck is running Linux itself.

            There’s gonna be a familiarization cost associated with changing an OS. Like, your workflow is gonna change, and there are gonna be things that you know how to do now that you aren’t gonna know how to do in a new environment. But I think that that’s likely going to be the larger impact, rather than “can I use hardware?”

            EDIT: Oh, it sounds like the reason that they call it “live install” rather than “liveboot” is because you can use the same image to both just use Linux directly, and can run the installer off the image too.

      • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Decades ago it was a funny joke. Now it’s the most popular handheld OS on the planet by a huge margin. Linux is damn EVERYWHERE except the desktop now, and it’s only a matter of time.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          This is why (as per usual) Stallman was right: the “GNU/” part matters. Linux is already all over the desktop (or at least, the laptop) in schools, in the form of Chromebooks. That means the entire next generation is going to grow up using Linux.

          The only trouble is, it’s locked-down Google/Linux that they’re using, not GNU/Linux. All the freedom and user empowerment has been neatly excised from it such that it only facilitates consumption, not creativity.

      • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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        10 months ago

        Been hearing this for decades.

        I’ve been hearing this about people hearing about people hearing that about Linux for decades.

    • EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
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      10 months ago

      I don’t see a “year of the Linux desktop” happening, but rather its share growing slowly over the years. Windows would probably not have one big event that ends its dominance, but it can be a death of a thousand cuts.

      • Plopp@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Guess which OS won’t be recognized as a “trusted environment” to visit websites with down the line in Google’s upcoming Web DRM. For your own protection of course…

        • Joe Cool@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          This I would actually want to see.
          I would so laugh when their most of their profits go to EU Antitrust Fines.
          Or they pull an Apple and only EU device owners get to choose their own browser.

    • JovialSodium@lemmy.sdf.org
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      10 months ago

      I can easily believe these types of continued enshittification will help drive more users to Linux desktop usage. But that will still be a small percent.

      People have to know and care about the problem and then be willing to put in the effort to understand what to do. That combination is pretty limiting.

      I’d love to be proven wrong, though.

      • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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        10 months ago

        I think it might. Demographics are changing to make PC users more technical overall. The casual user isn’t looking to purchase a desktop PC. Casual is now synonymous with mobile.

        It used to be that you needed a desktop to do your taxes or make an insurance claim over the Internet. That’s just not true anymore.

        • Pixel@pawb.social
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          10 months ago

          The demographics are stratifying, more than anything. I work in child education and kids do not understand computers nowadays. They understand how to interface with their phones, but kids see any electronic that behaves outside the “app” paradigm – landlines, desktop computers, what have you, and immediately don’t understand. I do think that linux usership is going to go up, but there also needs to be an investment in increasing literacy in kids to make sure usership of linux stays up, otherwise the pendulum will swing back hard

      • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
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        10 months ago

        Technically you could have such data gathered and stored locally, without sending them to big corpo. Privacy friendly “AI” is very much possible, it’s just not favorable to those companies because they see those models as a tool and the data as what ends up making them money.

    • tyrant@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      People may not want it but most don’t know, care enough to adjust, or are just generally complacent. I mean, I DO care and find it hard to move to Linux due to lack of support for some of my work tasks.

      • just_another_person@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Most things MOST people work on these days aren’t heavily tied to Windows as an OS in a way that would prevent it running via emulation. Worst-case, in a VM. Lots of the everyday things people use is in the browser now.

        You have an example?

    • gerryflap@feddit.nl
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      10 months ago

      I’m not so sure that the laypeople will, but I do expect a shift. Personally I’m still running Windows 10 next to Linux currently. Most of my time is still spent on Windows, because it’s generally a bit more stable and hassle free due to the Windows monopoly. Software is written for Windows, so sadly it’s usually just a better experience.

      But so many things I read about Win 11 (and beyond) piss me off. It’s my computer, I don’t want them to decide things for me or farm my data. I’m mentally preparing for the transition to Linux-only. 90% of the software I use will work out of the box, and I think with some effort I can get like 8% of the rest to work. It’ll be a lot of effort, but Micro$oft has pushed so far that I’m really starting to consider.

      Multiple friends and colleagues (all programmers) I spoke are feeling the same way. I think Linux may double in full-time desktop users in a few years of this goes on.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The combined ages of my children taken from 2024 would not equal the first year I heard that Ubuntu would take over the market.

  • grue@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I think it’s important to note that Linux can be a way to avoid AI, but doesn’t have to be. If you flip the headline around it almost implies that people who do want AI would be missing out by using Linux, but that’s not true at all: instead, the reality is that Linux is still better for them, too, because you could install all the same kind of functionality if you wanted, but it would be wholly under your control, not Microsoft’s.

    • Lem453@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Self hosted AI seems like an intriguing option for those capable of running it. Naturally this will always be more complex than paying someone else to host it for you but it seems like that’s that only way if you care about privacy

      https://github.com/mudler/LocalAI

    • SOB_Van_Owen@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      That sounds very cool. I’m totally ignorant of the hardware requirements. What sort of minimum setup would such an install take?

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    10 months ago

    All the AI garbage from M$ is what made me finally make the swap a couple weeks ago to Linux Mint on my personal desktop. I only use my PC for gaming/entertainment, so the switch was super easy. Can’t recommend it enough if you’re wanting to get away from Windows!

    • herrcaptain@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      One of us! One of us! One of us!

      For real though, good on ya. It takes a little getting used to, but is so worth it in the long run to not have to fight against the profit-driven whims of a megacorp. It’s also so much more customizable if you want to put together a really specific workflow for yourself.

    • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It’s advertising more than AI for me. Everything you do in Windows is monetized by selling your preferences to advertisers. Shameful.

    • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      I’ve been running Ubuntu desktop for years. YEARS and recently switched to Linux Mint. It’s very polished.

      My laptop is the last holdout.

  • archchan@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    I choose to privately self-host open source AI models and stuff on Linux. It’s almost like technology is a tool and corps are the ones fucking things up. Hmmm, imagine that.

    • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      It’s so fun to play with offline AI. It doesn’t have the creepy underpinnings of knowing art and journalism as well as musings from social media was blatantly stolen from the internet and sold as a service for profit.

      Edit: I hate theft and if you think theft is ok for training llms go ahead and dislike this comment. I don’t feel bad about what I said, local offline AI is just better because it doesn’t work on the premise of backroom deals and blatant theft. I will never use an AI like DALL.E when there is a talented artist trying to put food on the table with a skill they honed for years. If you condone stealing you are a cheap, heartless, coward.

      • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        I’m on his side, I don’t get the dislike. Maybe he likes massive corporations stealing people’s data putting artist and journalist out of work.

  • TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I finally switched to Linux and I couldn’t be happier. I can’t believe I put up with microsofts garbage for so damn long.

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    internet pollution is the real nightmare and your laptop os doesn’t fix that sorry

    • Damage@feddit.it
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      10 months ago

      you can’t fix everything, therefore it’s pointless to fix anything

    • vinyl@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Its going to start fixing shit if the market share of anything popular starts dropping.

    • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      If something like Fossil fuel companies are influencing environmental legislation and poisoning our planet while blaming us for the state of global warming. Isn’t it worth fighting for a better future. It might feel futile now but as congregation we have more power than many of us realize. They tell you stop it, it’s too late but what they’re really saying is stop it your scaring us.

  • frankgrimeszz@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I can’t read the article because of a full screen Cookie Choices pop-up that I can’t dismiss. ☠️

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    10 months ago

    It was the solution for the crap Microsoft force pushes to your device.

    Simple, Extendable and secure linux.

    • Midnight Wolf@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Can we get a hatchback model? I’d much prefer it to a truck. And is there a setting so it doesn’t grow? I want to stay city-friendly.

      • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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        10 months ago

        Imagine the horror of living in a world where all vehicles slowly expand and have to be cut down to manageable size annually until eventually the car is just too big a la American full size SUVs at EOL.

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        10 months ago

        As long as even basic features like push notifications are locked behind Google services, I’d hardly count that as a win. The Google monopoly on android is even worse than the Microsoft monopoly on PCs. Microsoft has at least some good alternative with the current Linux environment, but Googles only competitor is apple with an even worse system.

        Sure there are projects like LinageOS and GraphenOS, but both are still reliant on micro G or containerised Goggle apps.

        • Andromxda 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          Lineage and GrapheneOS don’t rely on Google Play services. It’s your apps that depend on this proprietary bullshit. That’s exactly why we need to grow the Android FOSS app ecosystem. We already have FOSS app marketplaces like F-Droid and Accrescent, and Obtainium allows us to download APKs from GitHub releases, as well as many other sources. There are many great FOSS apps that work just as well or even better than their proprietary counterparts. Some of my personal favorites are Breezy Weather, AntennaPod, Thunder for Lemmy, Aegis for 2FA, Standard Notes, LibreTube for YouTube, Xtra for Twitch and Translate You. There are alternatives for basically any Google service. We have UnifiedPush for notifications, OpenStreetMaps for maps and navigation, various serach engines like DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Mojeek and others (Android now even asks the user what search engine to use, instead of selecting Google as the default). There’s an improved fork of Signal called Molly, which has a FOSS variant that doesn’t use any proprietary Google libraries, it supports notifications through WebSockets instead of relying on Google’s FCM and they even have an option for UnifiedPush.

  • seaQueue@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Linux may be the best way to avoid the <insert dystopian corporate feature> nightmare

    Always has been

    • xia@lemmy.sdf.org
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      10 months ago

      I’m convinced that Linux’ mere presence has already stymied the development of the worst possible technocractic nightmare. I shudder to thick the tech chains would bind us if there was not an anchor/reference point… or if there was not even the small contingent that knows what it is like to use a liberating platform.

  • tal@lemmy.today
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    10 months ago

    Do you remember when you could put your Mac to sleep, and when you woke it up a few days later, the battery would barely have dropped? Not now, because your computer never really sleeps anymore.

    I assume that the Mac has some kind of hibernation function, and that that will reduce the battery drop to effectively zero.

    • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      Waking from hibernation is sooo much slower than waking from sleep. Apple silicon macs are very efficient in their S0 standby so they’ll go days before entering hibernation. Kinda odd that they bring that up now that Apple has fully transitioned to ARM machines where this isn’t really an issue. That said S0 standby on this 2019 Macbook I have for work is dogshit.

      • tal@lemmy.today
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        10 months ago

        How seriously painful is that boot time?

        I have my Linux Thinkpad set up to just go directly to hibernation. If I flip the lid open, by the time I’ve closed up my laptop backpack, stashed it, pulled my seat out, sat down, and scootched up, it’s pretty much up. And if it’s hibernated, then you don’t wind up with a case where you leave it in your bag for a long time, it draws down a bunch of a battery, and next time you open the thing up, maybe away from a plug, you don’t have a big chunk of your battery slorped up.

        does some timing

        Booting up and responding after a hibernation is a little under 30 seconds.

        Doing so after an S3 sleep is a little under 5 seconds.

        Now, okay, that’s just the system being back up, and it’s gonna have to broadcast a query, wait for responses from WAPs, associate with a wireless access point and get a DHCP lease before the network’s up, so maybe there’s a little extra time until the thing is fully usable, but still.

        I guess…hmm. I guess I can see doing a sleep-with-delayed hibernation for something like the case where someone’s moving between an office and a conference room. Like, wait 5 or 10 minutes, and if it’s still sleeping, then hibernate. What are the defaults?

        goes looking

        Hmm. Okay, so looks like on Debian, the default is to sleep (suspend) until the battery is down to 5%, then do a hibernate if it hits that critical level. Yeah, I never want to wait that long.

        Aight, I’m gonna move from directly hibernating to a 5 minute sleep or 5% battery, whichever first, then hibernate. I guess that’s maybe a good tradeoff for a scenario where a laptop is being frequently closed and opened, but it still shouldn’t result in much extra power consumption.

        • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          The Intel MacBook waking up from hibernation is about 30 seconds to get to the login prompt, 30 seconds for the login prompt to actually work, then 10-15 seconds after entering the password to get to a usable desktop environment with the wifi generally connecting within that window. It’s now awful, but traditional S1-3 standby was so much better. S0 standby is great if you’re frequently opening and closing the device, but is unusable on higher power devices.

          But that’s with only 8 gigs of ram on this MacBook, the more ram the longer it takes. The 32 gigs of ram in my actual work laptop (ThinkPad P1 11th gen i9) takes about a minute to wake from hibernation, and like 2 minutes for it to fully get situated. If I do that on battery that’s about 3-5% of my battery just waking from hibernation.

          • tal@lemmy.today
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            10 months ago

            The Intel MacBook waking up from hibernation is about 30 seconds to get to the login prompt, 30 seconds for the login prompt to actually work, then 10-15 seconds after entering the password to get to a usable desktop environment with the wifi generally connecting within that window.

            Hmm. Yeah, okay, I can see about a minute-and-a-half being obnoxious.

            So, the login prompt can probably be dealt with by just having some way to treat the login process specially and paging it in sooner. Like, I can’t believe that it uses all that much memory. If it isn’t an isolated process, make it one.

            But that’s with only 8 gigs of ram on this MacBook, the more ram the longer it takes. The 32 gigs of ram in my actual work laptop (ThinkPad P1 11th gen i9) takes about a minute to wake from hibernation, and like 2 minutes for it to fully get situated.

            I’m using a 32 gig laptop. But most of that doesn’t get used other than as disk cache, and I believe that normally, Linux isn’t gonna restore the disk cache; it’ll just drop the cache contents. Right now, I’m using 2.3G for actual application usage.

            considers

            I figure that maybe the desktop shell or whatever Apple calls it these days – going back to classic MacOS, the Finder – probably is more-heavyweight than what I’m using, but I figure that they could maybe do something like temporarily twiddle I/O priority on processes during the de-hibernation process. Like, okay, anything other than the foreground process gets an I/O priority penalty for a period of time. Like, maybe your music player or something is choppy for a few seconds, but whatever you’re directly interacting with should be active more-quickly.

            If this is SSD, that seems kinda long, still. Like, it shouldn’t take 2 minutes to move 32GB to SSD.

            It looks like I get about 3GBps reading from SSD:

            $ dd bs=100M iflag=direct if='setup_act_of_war_direct_action_1.06.3_(24183)-1.bin' of=/dev/null
            40+1 records in
            40+1 records out
            4294098942 bytes (4.3 GB, 4.0 GiB) copied, 1.28615 s, 3.3 GB/s
            $
            

            And that’s doing I/O going through the filesystem layer; I dunno if Macs use a swap file or swap partition these days, but if they have a dedicated partition, they might pull a bit more). So if you figure that in terms of raw I/O performance, it shouldn’t take more than about 10 seconds to fully restore memory contents on a 32GB laptop with comparable SSD performance, even if the OS has to fully-restore the entire contents of the memory. There’s some hardware state restoration that has to happen prior to starting to pull stuff back into memory, but for the memory restoration, that’s the floor. If it’s more than that, then presumably it’s possible to optimize by reprioritizing reads.

            So, I guess that there are maybe a couple areas for potential improvement:

            1. If the thing is locked and requires a password or something, you know that the user is gonna have to use the login process before anything else. Get that paged back in as soon as possible. Ditto for the graphics layer, Quartz or whatever Apple has these days. Strip that login process down; maybe separate it from whatever is showing blingy stuff on the login screen. Can have the OS treat it specially so that it’s first in line to come up.

            2. The next goal is to get the stuff that the user needs to be immediately interacting with back into memory. My guess is that that’s probably the launcher and/or task switcher and the foreground process. Might have a limited amount that can be done to strip the launcher/task switcher down. Have all processes other than those few favored processes get a temporary I/O priority penalty.

            3. One wants to keep the I/O system saturated until the system is to a fully-restored state, so that we don’t have to have the latency of waiting for a process to request something to bring it back into memory. So have some process that gets started, runs with I/O priority below all other processes, and just does bulk reads of valid pages from the pagefile (or wherever MacOS stores the hibernation state). Once that thing has completed, the system should be fully-warmed back to pre-hibernation state. That eliminates idle gaps when maybe there’s no reads happening. Maybe restore the disk cache state after that, if that doesn’t happen now, if the reason the system is sluggish is because it’s having to re-warm the cache bit by bit. On my Linux box, it looks like post-restoration, the disk cache is empty, so it’s probably just dropping the disk cache contents (which probably speeds up hibernation, but is gonna mean that the post-hibernation system is gonna have to figure out what it’s sensible to cache).

            EDIT: Also, relevant Steve Jobs quote that comes to mind:

            https://www.folklore.org/Saving_Lives.html

            Larry Kenyon was the engineer working on the disk driver and file system. Steve came into his cubicle and started to exhort him. “The Macintosh boots too slowly. You’ve got to make it faster!”

            Larry started to explain about some of the places where he thought that he could improve things, but Steve wasn’t interested. He continued, “You know, I’ve been thinking about it. How many people are going to be using the Macintosh? A million? No, more than that. In a few years, I bet five million people will be booting up their Macintoshes at least once a day.”

            “Well, let’s say you can shave 10 seconds off of the boot time. Multiply that by five million users and thats 50 million seconds, every single day. Over a year, that’s probably dozens of lifetimes. So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you’ve saved a dozen lives. That’s really worth it, don’t you think?”

            We were pretty motivated to make the software go as fast as we could anyway, so I’m not sure if this pitch had much effect, but we thought it was pretty humorous, and we did manage to shave more than ten seconds off the boot time over the next couple of months.

  • OpenStars@discuss.online
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    10 months ago

    I would hope that Apple would aim their AI more at iOS and leave Mac OSX alone:-|. If not, I would consider finally leaving it, if the AI features could not be turned off (which likely they would… at first, for awhile).

    Oh man, the thought strikes me: how will crucial systems like DoD Windows machines maintain integrity, if people can exploit those gigantic loopholes to basically have the OS be a keylogger? It’s not enough for me to use secure systems at home, if those in charge of our nation’s defense (especially nuclear!?) do not.

    • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The snapshot feature is only going to be available on certain laptops that have the Snapdragon + AI chip. DoD will likely simply just not buy those laptops and ban any org from purchasing them, like they already do for certain hardware that have been found to be especially vulnerable. Additionally, this feature isn’t turned on by default and costs a subscription fee (i.e. Copilot+), so people will have to consciously enable and pay for it. Lastly, in enterprise versions of Windows, I would bet money that it can be disabled via GPO, as it’s not only the DoD that would have serious issues/concerns with this feature.

      • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Right. Microsoft themselves just announced a feature to disable screenshoting some webpages in Edge, which is a complete 180 from recall.

        I expect windows to be split into two tiers of products again: the free version that is paid for by ads/tracking/AI bloatware possibly even mandatory cloud connectivity, and an enterprise version with all off that off, but that is paid.

        • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          They’re gonna need a way for IT departments to categorically disable Recall from doing any visual capture/scraping of data. I work in a HIPAA-constrained industry, and the entire concept of MS’s Recall is 100% a non-starter. The legal liability alone categorically disqualifies it from being an acceptable piece of software to run on ANY system that has access to ANY PII or PHI.

          • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Yeah, that’s why I mentioned in my comment that enterprise/professional versions will almost certainly allow it to be completely disabled via GPO, as this would be a death sentence for Windows. Businesses and governments across the world would immediately begin planning to off board to something else otherwise.

          • tal@lemmy.today
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            10 months ago

            Hmm. Do you allow people to VPN in from non-company-controlled laptops? Because I figure that anyone doing work at home is going to be maybe unwittingly having local copies made of data that they’re working with.

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
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        10 months ago

        But do we know that the tracking part will not be enabled by default - and possibly in a hidden, highly obscured manner, where the system claims it to not be but it in fact is? The access to Copliot+ may cost money, but why would Microsoft turn away that source of free data? At the very least it is a strong temptation, which even if they start out being responsible with, in every future update there is the potential to change course.

        And even if it were not enabled by default, I do worry that a 2-prong attack could first turn it on, then later exploit it to gather the data. If it for truly certain is limited to those chips though… then yes that provides security, thank you for mentioning that.

        One good thing is that government systems are always at least couple versions behind, specifically to allow time for exploits to be discovered & patched, prior to upgrades - i.e. prioritizing safety & security over ease-of-use and being on the bleeding edge of “new features”.

        • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I mentioned in another comment this would kill all trust in their product if it was found out that Windows was secretly doing all of that in the background in their enterprise products. There are other options, and as painful as transitioning to another OS would be, Microsoft being able to spy on everyone at any time would be worth the pain. This would absolutely destroy MS’s stock within a year as their dozens of multi-billion dollar contracts with governments and corporations evaporated. There’s no way the data they’re spying on would be worth the hundreds of billions they’d lose in sales.

          …Then again, we’ve seen corporations kill themselves in dumber ways before… I guess we’ll see.

          • OpenStars@discuss.online
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            10 months ago

            “Oopsie, we didn’t mean to leave the libraries in like that, and then for that update to switch ON the collection of all data after people stopped paying attention to it, and then after a lot of data has been collected for that still additional update to cause all that data to be sent back to our home servers…”

            And perhaps it would not even be a lie - one malicious actor, working inside the company, might be able to sneak it in without the higher-ups knowing about it. Or arguably worst of all, not even realize themselves that they did it, until after-the-fact.

            When working with something dangerous - e.g. explosives, or heavy like a car - it behooves us to treat it with special care. The fact that this data collection option now exists already warrants greater care in using Microsoft products in terms of security. Except, just how much do people care?

            I could also see another alternative moving forward: the DoS simply freezes their Windows versions at the last version that did not include the data collection capability, and then never updates again. As the first years and then decades roll by, and they are using the equivalent of Windows 7, then XP, then 95, then 3.1, they simply lose out on having “computers”. Possibly here I’ve gone too far into the doom-and-gloom, b/c while it’s possible it’s not terribly plausible, though it illustrates how Microsoft is not committed to the safety of a national government, but rather instead solely their own profits - and short-term ones at that.

    • KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Ready to be surprised but I doubt they would leave it on mobile only, bringing it to the desktop feeds into their model for a cohesive brand environment across all your devices.

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
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        10 months ago

        That’s the part I would consider leaving it. Unless they opened up the sourcecode. Apple has been extremely shitty lately, but they have managed to toe just short of the line wrt their desktop systems at least. The resulting outcry+backlash from IT professionals, scientists, engineerings, educators etc. if they forced this would be a severe blow to the company - which doesn’t mean that their greed wouldn’t make them try.

        • KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Maybe I’m just a doomsayer, but the same backlash that has been oh so successful at keeping climate change/environmental policy in a good place? -_-

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    10 months ago

    Just love all the ChatGPT ads embedded in the article.

    And before all the “jUsT uSe An Ad BlOcKeR” messages, I’m on a phone using the main browser and have nothing set up where I’m at (DNS/etc) to block ads.

    It’s amazing how many poorly-written articles are being posted about Linux lately, and on top of it, has ads for the very thing they’re talking about switching to Linux to avoid. Almost as if it wasn’t written by a human.

    EDIT>> And there they are. Get a life.